Bahai Answer Forum

We live in a unique age where an Old World Order is being replaced by a New World Order.

Shoghi Effendi saw this as an 'Age of Frustration', an age where the efforts towards building a Global Consciousness of the Oneness of humanity, was going to be frustrated by old world order mindsets.

Science is attempting to explain away God, yet science is but a gift of knowledge in the material world, a gift that has to be used in conjunction with our spiritual capacities.

So what are the current efforts towards this global consciousness of the Oneness of Humanity, that share the Goal the Baha'is of the world have embraced in the Message of Baha'u'llah? Let's find them, let's praise their efforts, let's rise above the conflict brought on by frustrated minds, stuck in National Boundaries and unbridled liberty, to a level.our own minds see only the end goal of Oneness.

Here are a couple

Universal Human Rights in Progressive Thought and Politics�

The above link is based in "Progressivism" which holds that it is possible to improve human societies through political action.

It was limited and the first world war may have squashed its lasting influence, but many of the aims can be seen a part of an end goal.

WHAT IS THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND WHY WAS IT CREATED?�

The United Nations has many departments working for Universal.Peace and Oneness of humanity.

You cannot view this attachment.

Regards Tony

Our Goal must be the Oneness as humanity, serving each other under One God.

There can be no other answer to all the ills that face a divided humanity, we are as the body of man and our elixir is the unity of all the parts working together.

For any unity to be lasting, there has to be purpose and a focus of mind and God has given us the source of our focus, the Messengers of God.

Each one of those Messengers have informed us where our focus and devotion must be centred, each Messenger in turn, pointing us to the creative force known by the many Names and Attributes of the One God.

The Bible tells us how we will eventually build God's Kingdom on earth, as it already is in heaven. A harmony of Spiritual Virtues and Morality.

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one".

The key to this unity is our ability to throw away all the predudices we have built, race predudices, gender predudices and religious predudices, predudices resulting from our attachment to a material world, above our ability to embrace the Oneness given of God via all the Messengers and the 'Books' (Word) they have given.

It can happen no other way. Embracing the Oneness of humanity with the knowledge we are guided by the One same God, the God of Noah, Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The Lords prayer is offered at such times.

Matthew 6:9 "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

https://youtu.be/zfPzUZ_25yw

Regards Tony

Quote from: Truthseeker on Feb 05, 2023, 03:29 AM

Quote from: jambun on Nov 24, 2022, 01:18 AMTo say that 'Abdu'l-Bahá got it right despite what is said by science just because of who he is seems to me downright dishonest. The points on which he disagrees are so fundamental and so basic that science just could not be mistaken. Just read an elementary Biology text book for High School students. If you learn that at school at age 16 then how much do Professors of evolutionary Biology know on the subject? You might as well question Einstein's theories of relativity and just say God is pushing things down rather than it being the curvature of the 4 dimensional space-time continuum.

Another thing you should consider is this, a point I make by quoting Shoghi Effendi on another matter.

In this connection it is interesting to note the answer given by the beloved Guardian's secretary on his behalf to a question about the "fourth heaven" mentioned in the Kitáb-i-Íqán. The translation of the passage is as follows:

As to the ascent of Christ to the "fourth heaven" as revealed in the glorious Book of Íqán, he [the Guardian] stated that the "fourth heaven" is a term used and a belief held by the early astronomers. The followers of the Shí'ah sect likewise held this belief. As the Kitáb-i-Íqán was revealed for the guidance of that sect, this term was used in conformity with the concepts of its followers.

What this means is that some statements in Abdu'l-Baha's explanation about the significance of evolution with regard to man might be incorrect by today's science, but He used what was known then, which might be incorrect today, but was geared to the Baha'is then to show that man was different from animals in a qualitative way. The point still is that man and animals are different in that man has a soul while animals have an animal spirit, and only man has the potential to reflect all of the attributes of God as Baha'u'llah said. I don't know enough to know if on some points He was incorrect by today's science.

Thank you Duane.

My understanding of this subject is that Abdul'baha was explaining that Evolution is as a species, with all the potential inherent qualities already being present right from the beginning.

As such, no matter how a human has evolved, whatever form/s we have taken in this evolutionary process, the potential was that of the Rational Mind, not of an animal.

We really do not know if we will evolve further? I would say we have to, as the rational mind is still not being used to its full potential.

Regards Tony

Quote from: jambun on Nov 24, 2022, 01:18 AMTo say that 'Abdu'l-Bahá got it right despite what is said by science just because of who he is seems to me downright dishonest. The points on which he disagrees are so fundamental and so basic that science just could not be mistaken. Just read an elementary Biology text book for High School students. If you learn that at school at age 16 then how much do Professors of evolutionary Biology know on the subject? You might as well question Einstein's theories of relativity and just say God is pushing things down rather than it being the curvature of the 4 dimensional space-time continuum.

Another thing you should consider is this, a point I make by quoting Shoghi Effendi on another matter.

In this connection it is interesting to note the answer given by the beloved Guardian's secretary on his behalf to a question about the "fourth heaven" mentioned in the Kitáb-i-Íqán. The translation of the passage is as follows:

As to the ascent of Christ to the "fourth heaven" as revealed in the glorious Book of Íqán, he [the Guardian] stated that the "fourth heaven" is a term used and a belief held by the early astronomers. The followers of the Shí'ah sect likewise held this belief. As the Kitáb-i-Íqán was revealed for the guidance of that sect, this term was used in conformity with the concepts of its followers.

What this means is that some statements in Abdu'l-Baha's explanation about the significance of evolution with regard to man might be incorrect by today's science, but He used what was known then, which might be incorrect today, but was geared to the Baha'is then to show that man was different from animals in a qualitative way. The point still is that man and animals are different in that man has a soul while animals have an animal spirit, and only man has the potential to reflect all of the attributes of God as Baha'u'llah said. I don't know enough to know if on some points He was incorrect by today's science.

Quote from: Tony Bristow-Stagg on Nov 24, 2022, 05:51 PMAbdul'baha explains the evolution of man as a distinct species, in the context of the potentialof the spirit. I see Science is yet to explore the Spirit that is behind evolution.

Regards Tony

Sorry, I haven't checked in here for a long time, obviously.

Quote from: jambun on Nov 24, 2022, 01:18 AMTo say that 'Abdu'l-Bahá got it right despite what is said by science just because of who he is seems to me downright dishonest. The points on which he disagrees are so fundamental and so basic that science just could not be mistaken. Just read an elementary Biology text book for High School students. If you learn that at school at age 16 then how much do Professors of evolutionary Biology know on the subject? You might as well question Einstein's theories of relativity and just say God is pushing things down rather than it being the curvature of the 4 dimensional space-time continuum.

It's not dishonest to say that, just a honest different opinion of what Abdu'l-Baha meant. You could say that Abdu'l-Baha isn't infallible on a matter such as this also, if this is unacceptable to you. Myself, I think that this is probably an interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Writings, but how can I say this with certainty? You can reject the Baha'i Faith as an infallible Revelation if you want if you think Abdu'l-Baha is infallible in everything He said. You would have to if you are consistent with Baha'u'llah appointing Abdu'l-Baha as being the infallible interpreter of what Baha'u'llah said. This would be tantamount to rejecting the infallibility of Baha'u'llah. Of course, you wouldn't have to reject everything that Abdu'l-Baha and Baha'u'llah said.

Today on my mind is all those that are suffering war and conflict. A situation only misguided humans initiate.

Abdul'baha has given many talks about Peace. This OP is a good place to post from the Writings quotes on how we can obtain Peace.

This is a quote from a talk given by Abdul'baha.

"....However great the conqueror, however many countries he may reduce to slavery, he is unable to retain any part of these devastated lands but one tiny portion—his tomb! If more land is required for the improvement of the condition of the people, for the spread of civilization (for the substitution of just laws for brutal customs)—surely it would be possible to acquire peaceably the necessary extension of territory.

But war is made for the satisfaction of men's ambition; for the sake of worldly gain to the few, terrible misery is brought to numberless homes, breaking the hearts of hundreds of men and women!

How many widows mourn their husbands, how many stories of savage cruelty do we hear! How many little orphaned children are crying for their dead fathers, how many women are weeping for their slain sons!

There is nothing so heartbreaking and terrible as an outburst of human savagery!

I charge you all that each one of you concentrate all the thoughts of your heart on love and unity. When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love. Thoughts of war bring destruction to all harmony, well-being, restfulness and content.

Thoughts of love are constructive of brotherhood, peace, friendship, and happiness.

When soldiers of the world draw their swords to kill, soldiers of God clasp each other's hands! So may all the savagery of man disappear by the Mercy of God, working through the pure in heart and the sincere of soul. Do not think the peace of the world an ideal impossible to attain!

Nothing is impossible to the Divine Benevolence of God.

If you desire with all your heart, friendship with every race on earth, your thought, spiritual and positive, will spread; it will become the desire of others, growing stronger and stronger, until it reaches the minds of all men.

Do not despair! Work steadily. Sincerity and love will conquer hate. How many seemingly impossible events are coming to pass in these days! Set your faces steadily towards the Light of the World. Show love to all; "Love is the breath of the Holy Spirit in the heart of Man." Take courage! God never forsakes His children who strive and work and pray! Let your hearts be filled with the strenuous desire that tranquillity and harmony may encircle all this warring world. So will success crown your efforts, and with the universal brotherhood will come the Kingdom of God in peace and goodwill...."

https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/paris-talks/2#732869018

Regards Tony

This link is to a talk by Abdul'baha

Proofs and Arguments for the Existence of God

Regards Tony

Evidence of God. 1st Part

This topic is an important foundation to all those that seek meaning in life.

The search for truth, in this age, needs to be  balanced between Science and Religion. Both can give us meaning to our purpose in creation. They are as the wings of the one bird of truth.

Science enables us to discover truths of the visable and hidden mysteries of the material world and brings forth many previously unknown truths into the realm of the known.

Religion serves the same purpose, bringing previously unknown Spiritual truths into the realm of the known.

When we finally balance Science with Religion, this will enable humanity to do away with sciences that promote weapons of mass destruction.

When we balance Religion with Science, we can find new meaning in age old doctrines that divide humanity.

It is then logical, that a God that wants to be known, would then be a God that provides the evidence. So what is the evidence that has been provided?

If we look at the History of Religion it becomes obvious that God is only becomes known through our indivdual understanding of Religion.

So the  proof given of God is as noted following.

1) The Messenger. Know as a Prophet, or a Messenger or a Manifestation
2) The Revelation. Each messenger offers they have brought a message from God.
3) The Word. This is the Message given to humanity.

Using these 3 sources of evidence, we are then enabled to bring forth logical and rational proofs to confirm the Truths, as offered to us by God.

The quandary we are faced with is allowing our own preconceived ideas to blind us from what the evidence is offering us, or making a God of our own image.

In exploring this evidence, much can be learned.

Regards Tony

That is a good summary of the progression from Jesus to Baha'u'llah and what will come to pass.

All the best, Regards Tony